Two things. One, the characters don’t just survive and keep going, they also get better. Compare Hank, Dean, and 21 from the beginning of the series to the end. Two, it is not just a deconstruction/subversion. The series knows when to use and rebuild tropes. See Red Death explaining to a villain wannabe why tying someone to train tracks is such a practical “sinister act” for a great example.
From the perspective of just pure comedy writing fundamentals, I think one of the most impressive thinga about this show is that there are so very few "one joke" characters in Venture Bros. If a character makes more than one appearance it's a good bet that they've got more texture and development than a lot of modern sitcoms (especially animated ones) will ever permit. That strikes me as profoundly empathetic.
Easiest thing in the world is to just go back to the well on a winning punchline. Venture Bros is always onto something new, that's how you get characters like Henchman 21 (my GOAT).
I was just thinking about that actually. Without going into spoilers, characters like Sgt Hatred or Vendata were one off jokes at first that ended up becoming fully human and central to the plot. You get the impression that BumRush has a whole life story and personality even though he's just a sight gag background character. Many such cases.
I loved the episode with the Kissinger character trying to turn Dr. Venture into a supervillain, when, suddenly, he realizes that's not him. Killinger congratulates him, and then leaves.
One underappreciated nerd Gen X line, "Yeah, I had that issue of Heavy Metal, too."
A lovely read. Having watched Venture Bros. during its original Adult Swim airing and again in my early 20s, now seems like a good time to revisit it.
Your core observation, that heroes are basically ascetic "losers" (in the worldly sense) is why Batman is one of the few classic Western superheroes fit for our age: Enforcing justice in an irredeemably corrupt society and taking that burden onto himself.
A lot of Marvel schlock has been produced in the past 20 years but only Nolan and Reeves' take on the DC franchise has ever risen to the level of modern classic or borderline arthouse. Ending with irreversible and abysmal failure yet a personal resolution to persevere is a lost formula that Hollywood midwits are incapable of recapturing - it's not a formula that would ever occur to the nihilist.
I never did watch Venture Bros. - I was a little too young to get it when I saw in on television, and by the time I was old enough to understand the humor, I was so knee-deep in my weeaboo phase I never gave any time to watching it. It's been one of those series that's been on my radar for a long time since, though I don't know many people who've watched it, everyone I do know who has adores it. Whenever I have the time next (which is God only knows when), I'll give it the fair shake I've always been meaning to.
That aside, your echoing a sentiment I've been feeling for a long time now. I actually really like the first season of The Boys, but the following seasons doubled down on its worst aspects and devolved into a rank self-parody that I can't take seriously. It reminds me a lot of Rick and Morty - it's not the worst thing in the world, it has some merit, but overall it's so nasty and mean-spirited that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth I can't overlook. The nihilism, the cynicism, it all gets to the point where it's just bleak and leaves nothing to offer except for more of the same. For a while that was my outlook on life - nothing matters, Reddit-tier cynicism, etc. etc. - but after a few years of circling that drain, I had this thought that, "Wait... if it doesn't matter... then it still could matter." The logical conclusion of the nihilists "why?" should, in my opinion, lead to "why not?" But to do so would admit that you're not as cynical or nihilistic as you claim to be, which in these circles of midwits, is wrongly equated to intelligence and rationalism, so rather than ever see the value in hope, persistence, and making something out of the nothing handed to you, the creatives series like The Boys and Rick and Morty are too afraid of looking like they actually believe in something. Dreadful, I know. So, they continue to wallow in their own misery. Hopefully we'll soon turn the corner on this era of culture and arrive at a better, more optimistic place.
somehow you've written something that was exactly what i needed to read, and something that is also timeless and stands above and beyond as a spirit of these times we live in.
the venture brothers was one of my favorite shows when i was a young troublemaker, and you've put to words something i've felt in my soul for a minute.
Monarch talking to Dr Girlfriend about her dating or having dinner with Invisible Man, and Monarch referenced him “pounding his invisible meat”.
Then the episode with the boys chanting “Mecca Shiva”.
The show just always entertained me and made me feel as if I was cozying up to something of substance. The characters all had their own draw.
I think Harley Quinn on HBO has hit a pretty good mark of “the world is imperfect and so are it’s heroes”. The heroes are not the most competent, but their will to push forward despite failure , more than makes up for it. The Bane character is superb. Poison Ivy is quite good. Dr Psycho. Kite Man. A villain named The Condiment King who doesn’t have superpowers but has a flamethrower type device that slings ketchup and mustard. It’s kind of like Venture Bros in a slightly more adult version.
Great synthesis! I confess I am unfamiliar with Venture Bros and gave up on the Boys after one season(it had its moments but I thought the Watchmen did it better). I am a big Ursula fan though, she’s one of my favorite fantasy writers. I would say her update of the heroes journey is more of a modification than a deconstruction process, though perhaps her acolytes take it further in that direction. To me, she is a lovely writer with a lot of great and truly creative books, but perhaps because she favors the bag over the sword, her books can be a little boring. I think the carrier bag and the hero with the sword are both valid journeys for a book or a character, and not necessarily mutually exclusive.
One last thing I would say about deconstruction-archetypes are very ancient and important to the stories we tell, but they are not completely static either. They may be eligible for subversion or rethinking periodically, and I don’t think us moderns are necessarily alone in the desire to do so. But yes, wholesale deconstruction is kind of demoralizing in a way, sort of like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Perhaps as with many things there’s a good middle ground we can shoot for
Yeah, I probably should have put a finer point on LeGuin just being symbolic of the beginning of the trend of deconstruction, not the cause. She's a great writer and I don't see her as cynical. I just liked the juxtaposition of her and Campbell and Venture Bros as the synthesis. And maybe I forced something into the essay that it would have flowed better without because I was passionate about the idea, but they feels so appropriate for the Venture Bros.
I didn’t get that impression I just thought it was worth further riffing/unpacking on her spin on it. I’m reading her book Lavinia rn it’s very good history/fantasy but also kinda boring. I’ve read several of her books and I don’t think there’s a one that I would call a page turner, although they are great nonetheless. And maybe that’s because they do tend to favor the more prosaic growth of the characters over flashy stuff. But a lot of people who do go in for what I would consider kinda whack deconstructionist writing do claim her as an influence, but that’s not really her fault imo
I think Campbell is not taken seriously outside the English-speaking world and I am certain Hungarian mythology (which I am familiar with) falls completely outside his rules. The 'hero's journey' thing is vague, unoriginal and flattens everything. Venture Bros on the other hand rocks, I started watching because Amber mentioned in her post. Have you seen Duckman?
Why do we need the return of the great male literary author when the Venture Brothers have already said everything that needs to be said about 21st century masculinity?
Two things. One, the characters don’t just survive and keep going, they also get better. Compare Hank, Dean, and 21 from the beginning of the series to the end. Two, it is not just a deconstruction/subversion. The series knows when to use and rebuild tropes. See Red Death explaining to a villain wannabe why tying someone to train tracks is such a practical “sinister act” for a great example.
From the perspective of just pure comedy writing fundamentals, I think one of the most impressive thinga about this show is that there are so very few "one joke" characters in Venture Bros. If a character makes more than one appearance it's a good bet that they've got more texture and development than a lot of modern sitcoms (especially animated ones) will ever permit. That strikes me as profoundly empathetic.
Easiest thing in the world is to just go back to the well on a winning punchline. Venture Bros is always onto something new, that's how you get characters like Henchman 21 (my GOAT).
I was just thinking about that actually. Without going into spoilers, characters like Sgt Hatred or Vendata were one off jokes at first that ended up becoming fully human and central to the plot. You get the impression that BumRush has a whole life story and personality even though he's just a sight gag background character. Many such cases.
Shore Leave goes from a pretty unsuccessful one off bit to a legitimately very funny side character for like 3 seasons.
I loved the episode with the Kissinger character trying to turn Dr. Venture into a supervillain, when, suddenly, he realizes that's not him. Killinger congratulates him, and then leaves.
One underappreciated nerd Gen X line, "Yeah, I had that issue of Heavy Metal, too."
A lovely read. Having watched Venture Bros. during its original Adult Swim airing and again in my early 20s, now seems like a good time to revisit it.
Your core observation, that heroes are basically ascetic "losers" (in the worldly sense) is why Batman is one of the few classic Western superheroes fit for our age: Enforcing justice in an irredeemably corrupt society and taking that burden onto himself.
A lot of Marvel schlock has been produced in the past 20 years but only Nolan and Reeves' take on the DC franchise has ever risen to the level of modern classic or borderline arthouse. Ending with irreversible and abysmal failure yet a personal resolution to persevere is a lost formula that Hollywood midwits are incapable of recapturing - it's not a formula that would ever occur to the nihilist.
I never did watch Venture Bros. - I was a little too young to get it when I saw in on television, and by the time I was old enough to understand the humor, I was so knee-deep in my weeaboo phase I never gave any time to watching it. It's been one of those series that's been on my radar for a long time since, though I don't know many people who've watched it, everyone I do know who has adores it. Whenever I have the time next (which is God only knows when), I'll give it the fair shake I've always been meaning to.
That aside, your echoing a sentiment I've been feeling for a long time now. I actually really like the first season of The Boys, but the following seasons doubled down on its worst aspects and devolved into a rank self-parody that I can't take seriously. It reminds me a lot of Rick and Morty - it's not the worst thing in the world, it has some merit, but overall it's so nasty and mean-spirited that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth I can't overlook. The nihilism, the cynicism, it all gets to the point where it's just bleak and leaves nothing to offer except for more of the same. For a while that was my outlook on life - nothing matters, Reddit-tier cynicism, etc. etc. - but after a few years of circling that drain, I had this thought that, "Wait... if it doesn't matter... then it still could matter." The logical conclusion of the nihilists "why?" should, in my opinion, lead to "why not?" But to do so would admit that you're not as cynical or nihilistic as you claim to be, which in these circles of midwits, is wrongly equated to intelligence and rationalism, so rather than ever see the value in hope, persistence, and making something out of the nothing handed to you, the creatives series like The Boys and Rick and Morty are too afraid of looking like they actually believe in something. Dreadful, I know. So, they continue to wallow in their own misery. Hopefully we'll soon turn the corner on this era of culture and arrive at a better, more optimistic place.
Great work, PJ.
somehow you've written something that was exactly what i needed to read, and something that is also timeless and stands above and beyond as a spirit of these times we live in.
the venture brothers was one of my favorite shows when i was a young troublemaker, and you've put to words something i've felt in my soul for a minute.
outstanding work.
Thank you so much. It's also something I've been struggling with lately, so I'm glad other people feel that way.
The anubis bit was real (you can see the original on youtube)
Love that show.
Best show ever
You’re an ubermensch, PJ.
Monarch talking to Dr Girlfriend about her dating or having dinner with Invisible Man, and Monarch referenced him “pounding his invisible meat”.
Then the episode with the boys chanting “Mecca Shiva”.
The show just always entertained me and made me feel as if I was cozying up to something of substance. The characters all had their own draw.
I think Harley Quinn on HBO has hit a pretty good mark of “the world is imperfect and so are it’s heroes”. The heroes are not the most competent, but their will to push forward despite failure , more than makes up for it. The Bane character is superb. Poison Ivy is quite good. Dr Psycho. Kite Man. A villain named The Condiment King who doesn’t have superpowers but has a flamethrower type device that slings ketchup and mustard. It’s kind of like Venture Bros in a slightly more adult version.
I am not ashamed to admit I teared up a bit reading your essay.
Oh, by the way...saddle up boys, we have a tiger to ride!
Glad it made you feel something. And hell yeah.
Great synthesis! I confess I am unfamiliar with Venture Bros and gave up on the Boys after one season(it had its moments but I thought the Watchmen did it better). I am a big Ursula fan though, she’s one of my favorite fantasy writers. I would say her update of the heroes journey is more of a modification than a deconstruction process, though perhaps her acolytes take it further in that direction. To me, she is a lovely writer with a lot of great and truly creative books, but perhaps because she favors the bag over the sword, her books can be a little boring. I think the carrier bag and the hero with the sword are both valid journeys for a book or a character, and not necessarily mutually exclusive.
One last thing I would say about deconstruction-archetypes are very ancient and important to the stories we tell, but they are not completely static either. They may be eligible for subversion or rethinking periodically, and I don’t think us moderns are necessarily alone in the desire to do so. But yes, wholesale deconstruction is kind of demoralizing in a way, sort of like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Perhaps as with many things there’s a good middle ground we can shoot for
Yeah, I probably should have put a finer point on LeGuin just being symbolic of the beginning of the trend of deconstruction, not the cause. She's a great writer and I don't see her as cynical. I just liked the juxtaposition of her and Campbell and Venture Bros as the synthesis. And maybe I forced something into the essay that it would have flowed better without because I was passionate about the idea, but they feels so appropriate for the Venture Bros.
I didn’t get that impression I just thought it was worth further riffing/unpacking on her spin on it. I’m reading her book Lavinia rn it’s very good history/fantasy but also kinda boring. I’ve read several of her books and I don’t think there’s a one that I would call a page turner, although they are great nonetheless. And maybe that’s because they do tend to favor the more prosaic growth of the characters over flashy stuff. But a lot of people who do go in for what I would consider kinda whack deconstructionist writing do claim her as an influence, but that’s not really her fault imo
That was pretty cool mate
I think Campbell is not taken seriously outside the English-speaking world and I am certain Hungarian mythology (which I am familiar with) falls completely outside his rules. The 'hero's journey' thing is vague, unoriginal and flattens everything. Venture Bros on the other hand rocks, I started watching because Amber mentioned in her post. Have you seen Duckman?
Why do we need the return of the great male literary author when the Venture Brothers have already said everything that needs to be said about 21st century masculinity?